Tuesday, December 11, 2007

Kimkins, via Admin Gary, Still Recommending Very Low Calories


This was just posted at Kimkins this morning, December 11, 2007, by Admin Lasttime4me (Gary).

Note my math and comments below.


Lasttime4me (Admin)

CARBS, FAT and PROTEIN TOTALS/PERCENTAGES

Kimkins a low-carb diet and our goal is to eat 20 or less total carbs each day. The percentage of Carbs will be low compared to Fats and Proteins you eat each day. This should not alarm you in any way.

If you eat almost no carbs or low-carbs, protein and fat will naturally be a very high % of calorie intake, since that is all you are eating. If you added carbs, the protein and fat % would go down, even though the amounts didn't. So, don't worry about ratios.

As for overall totals to shoot for, no exact guidelines. Eat from the food lists, to appetite, no more, keeping carbs always below 20, and fats are low as you reasonably can. This IS NOT a fat-free diet so use fats to make your recipe work for YOU!

Now, once you are well on your way, feeling strong and confident, with good appetite suppression working for you, and just looking to make tweaks, the fastest losses seem to be around 800-1200 cals, 30 - 40 grams fat, 60 - 100 grams protein, 8-12 grams (or less) carbs. But, that is NOT an official rule, nor can everyone want to or need to do that.

Make sure you take your multi-vitamin and drink at least 8 glasses of water or MORE!


I do understand the bind Gary is in. During my time at Kimkins, Kimmer repeatedly ignored and refused requests to elaborate on the diet plans or offer more info to answer the many newbie questions for help and specifics. She repeatedly stated that the diet was simple, and she could not understand why anyone would have trouble figuring it out or need more explanation. She directed the moderators to answer the lost and confused 'newbies', for whom she showed little patience.

(I now wonder whether her refusal to elaborate was because she was too busy marketing for new 'sales' to care about the existing members, or because she deliberately wanted to put her Mods and Admins out on the line for her.)

So, I understand that Gary, Singling Lass, and the other experienced members field the same questions over and over and over, that Kimmer should have answered in her published guidelines and ebook. As they have run into those same frustrations, they have begun to do what previous Admins did, which is to compile a bank of "stickies", permanent posts at the tops of the main forum categories that fill in the gaps and answer the questions that come up all the time. It is helpful for members --- but creates a convenient buffer between Heidi Diaz and her dangerous advice. She can then try to blame the Admins for creating the poor advice she is passing along through them.

Now, let's do the math:

Gary advices 800 - 1200 calories, because that is the latest 'Admin-safe' party line, though NOWHERE in the published diet rules has Heidi/Kimkins changed the actual guidelines to say this. If Heidi REALLY believed and wanted to say that, she could write exactly that into her 'simple' bullet-point paragraph guidelines.

Then Gary goes on to give a fairly generous interpretation of the macro-nutrient levels Kimmer has advised. I (and many others) specifically recall Kimmer saying in a scheduled all-site chat one time that the ideal amount of fat for Kimkins was 20 grams a day, 30 tops, but Gary has bumped that up to 30 - 40 grams of fat.

Likewise, over time, I watched as Kimmer revised her recommended protein intake down, from the "at least 70 - 90 grams" she listed at LCF, to the 60 - 80 she first published at her own site, to no officially listed amount, but frequent posts mentioning 60 g and later 50 g. So, Gary's 100 g of protein is quite extravagant by traditional Kimkins standards.

Similarly, Kimkins states 20 or fewer carbs, but Kimmer has always promoted the idea of even lower carb levels for 'deep, real ketosis' and maximum appetite suppression, with 8 - 12 being a commonly mentioned level.

Gary even advises drinking ample water, which Kimmer herself never did.

So, how does his math add up?
Each gram of protein or carbohydrate has 4 calories. Each gram of fat has 9 calories.

Thus, on the high side, Gary's ideal recommendation has 808 calories:
40 g fat x 9 = 360 calories
100 g protein x 4 = 400 calories
12 g carb x 4 = 48 calories
TOTAL: 808 calories

On the low side, Gary's ideal recommendation has 542 calories:

30 g fat x 9 = 270
60 g protein x 4 = 240 calories
8 g carb x 4 = 32 calories
TOTAL: 542 calories

People can try to bump Kimkins up to higher levels all they want, but the actual guidelines, the math, and the culture Kimmer has created just don't support it. She always intended Kimkins to be very low calorie levels, mainly achieved through very low fat levels. She taught it that way, people learned it that way, and that is the only way to get the fast weight loss results she boasted about in her claims (along with the negative health consequences she denied). That is what Kimkins is, and what it will always be as long as it is Kimkins. That is Kimmer's way.

Frankly, that is the way MANY people at Kimkins (or doing the diet elsewhere) STILL do it, in spite of Jeannie Baitinger's recent efforts to raise the calorie levels. That is why so few post FitDay links anymore --- they do not want it known how little they actually eat.

The only way to meet Gary's stated ideal calories, which are still considered low by safe medical standards, would be to raise fat to 60 - 85 grams. After all, Kimkins cannot raise carbs too much and still be a low-carb diet that claims an extra-deep level of appetite suppression. Kimkins also cannot raise protein too much higher without triggering gluconeogenesis, the conversion of excess protein to glucose.

Adding good healthy fats is the only way to make Kimkins safe, healthy, and adequate.

It also makes it Atkins.

34 comments:

BamaGal said...

Thank you for doing the math. With all that protein they recommend--I fear for their kidneys. I will be linking in to this with my new post.

2BIG4MYSIZE said...

thank you very much for posting this information.
I even tried the new over 800 cals version TippyToes was advocating but even with 920 cals it is still deficient in EFAs, and fats. Not to mention other vits and minerals and calories in general. I even had over 150 grams of protein trying to get the cals up.
As long as the fats are held that low the cals will be too low too.

OhYeahBabe said...

This is the really dangerous part of having completely unqualified people giving diet advice. I hope he's prepared to bear the burden of shame and liability if something goes terribly wrong for someone who follows his advice.

Mayberryfan said...

Becky,

Thank you for your insight and tenacity. Who knows how many people you're saving by speaking out about the dangers of this diet plan!

Medusa said...

Thanks so much, Becky, for taking the time to crunch the numbers. It is shocking.

I've linked to your post on my blog, Medusa.

Again, many thanks!

Avenue Girl said...

Becky, thank you for a clear explanation. Your wisdom is always refreshing and appreciated. Some things you can make up as you go along, but a safe healthy diet is clearly not one of them.

Sue said...

What a joke - he doesn't even know how to calculate the amount of calories!!
8-12 carbs truly ridiculous - for goodness sakes 20g is low enough! In regards to protein requirements its different for everyone depending on their size.

Know the Facts said...

Becky ate less than that when she was on Kimkins. Here is her post from August:

Here is this week's menu, with recipes following. I often simplify or rearrange things in the actual cooking, as events come up, but this gives me a plan for my shopping list and prep-aheads. I usually only end up making 5 or 6 of the entrees, because of going out or over to someone's house for dinner, or eating leftovers some nights when the kids are all out and it is just DH and me.

I usually have a protein shake for breakfast, or some kind of eggs. For lunch, I rotate a few basic 'lunch of the week' ideas. In that way, things stay simple and uncomplicated.

For dinner, I try to make a basic meal the whole family can eat, with variations.
I add the higher-carb, higher-calorie menu items for my non-Kimkins family [in square brackets].

Monday
B: Mocha Cappuccino Protein Shake
L: Grilled Chicken with Dijonaisse Dip
D: Taco Salad, [sliced avocado, sour cream, tortilla chips]

Tuesday
B: Strawberry Protein Shake
L: Tuna Salad on Revolution 'Bread'
D: Chicken a la Queen, salad of baby mixed greens, steamed broccoli, [parsley-buttered egg noodles]

Wednesday
B: Chocolate Mint Protein Shake
L: Egg Salad on Celery Sticks
D: Black Pepper Beef and Cabbage Stir-Fry, [rice, melon]

Thursday
B: Denver Omelet with Canadian Bacon
L: Diet Coke "Float" Protein Shake
D: Texas-Style Low-Carb Chili, [favorite fixings, tortilla chips]

Friday
B: Fuzzy Navel Protein Shake
L: Texas-Style Low-Carb Chili
D: Salmon Bundles with Rosemary, Capers, and Lemon; Romaine/Red Onion Salad; [Steamed Red Potatoes}


Saturday
B: Chocolate Peanut Caramel Protein Shake
L: Tuna Salad on 'Revolution Bread', Celery Sticks
D: Chili-Lime Chicken, Garlic Cauliflower, [Corn with Mixed Bell Pepper Bits]

Sunday
B: Strawberry Kiwi Protein Shake
L: Rosemary Pork Loin Medallions, Lemon-Pepper Green Beans, [Seasoned Potato Wedges]
D: Any leftovers of choice from week

Drinks: Water, Coffee, Iced tea/Sugar-free Lemonade, Green tea, Peach tea
Snacks and Desserts: Sugar-free gelatin, Sugar-free slushies/snowcones/popsicles (homemade)

Becky said...

To know the facts

I'm not sure what your point is. If you are saying I did Kimkins when on Kimkins, well, of course I did. No secret there. I have admitted as much, and am working to correct that, both in my own metabolism and in the public forum.

I did Kimkins more generously than most, as I think the menu you posted actually shows. I was even chided for it by Kimmer, who criticized me behind my back to Christin and another friend of mine for eating as much as I did!

My whole point was that even after all the scientific information and actual reports from real people about the harms of VLCDs, all the legal troubles, and all the supposed improvements to Kimkins with Jeannie Baitinger pushing for at least 800 calories or more, that Kimkins as written and run by Kimmer will always revert to extremely low calories, because that is how she intends it to be.

I am not even blaming Gary. He is doing the best job he can within a fatally-flawed system. He needs to get out of there and quit supporting a dangerous fraud. But, he didn't invent the diet, and he seems to be pushing it about as far as Kimkins will allow.

Yes, I did Kimkins, after my fashion, and I am sorry. I no longer follow Kimkins. I advise anyone else following Kimkins to get out and do something else.

theTRUTH said...

After all, "the whole point of bariatric surgery is to force you into 500 calories or less." How many times did we hear that from Kimmer?

And how sad to attack Becky for what she ate while on Kimkins. We all ate that or less. We were told to over and over.

Deni said...

Know the facts...
I just checked on your profile... seems your blog is merely an advertisement for people to join kimkins.


I guess you failed to mention the "fact" that you approve of the kimkins diet.

2BIG4MYSIZE said...

the time frame you are posting about was before Becky became aware of the dangers of eating the Kimkins.com plan and she truely believed what Kimmer was saying about fat folk having all the fat they needed. In the words of Maya Angelou "It is very important for every human being to forgive herself or himself because if you live, you will make mistakes- it is inevitable. But once you do and you see the mistake, then you forgive yourself and say, 'well, if I'd known better I'd have done better,' that's all."
Becky now knows better and does better. Hope Gary and all the other kimkineete will too

Know the Facts said...

Oh Deni......for someone who has found religion...you should conduct yourself in a different manner. I read your Blog and you are definitely NOT a Christian lady the way you talk about and criticise others.
So what you have to say is meaningless and I will no longer respond to someone who is a hypocrite.

I approve of any diets that will help people lose weight and rid themselves of all the weight related diseases......including Kimkins......

Know the Facts said...

The Point Becky is that you were doing the same thing as Gary is doing but recommended much less food. So you criticize others who you think are wrong. A mature woman like you criticizing others is so High Shoolish! Time to GET A LIFE!!!!

I am so glad I am not FAT like you ladies.......


2Big4MySize.......Yes you can forgive yourself when you have done wrong but you do not criticize others who are doing what you have did or do not belive what you believe. Shame on you.

LISAinTN said...

know the facts.....Pot, kettle, black??!! Here you are bashing Becky and Deni for "criticizing" others when you are here doing the same exact thing to them! Sounds like a good example of "do as I say, not as I do".

Becky and Deni are not criticizing anyone. I'm sorry you're so cynical that you see it that way. Rather, they are learning from their mistakes and trying to save others from making those same mistakes. Too bad you can't use your energy to do the same. Why don't you try helping others instead of trying to bring everyone down. You've helped absolutely no one here with your criticisms.

Merry Christmas!

2BIG4MYSIZE said...

know the facts
I want to understand what you are saying. since becky has learned that the eatting plan Kimkins is dangerous and is now trying to let folk know about this she shouldn't try to stop others from promoting Kimkins. a dangerously low cal, low carb, low fat eating plan?

if that is your message then what is your plan to stop folk passing out this nutrtionally bankrupt plan known as Kimkins ?

Kat said...

Friends don't let friends do Kimkins! Remember that cover girl on the WW Mag? Well, she learned the hard way about Kimkins and it's dangers!! Read her blog and decide for yourself.

http://the-journey-on.blogspot.com/

Kat said...

Now that you know the Truth...Join the Lawsuit!!

http://kimkinslawsuit.wordpress.com/

Kat said...

Boycot Kimkins in 2008!! Wanna know why? Go here:

http://www.3fatchicks.com/Diets/Diet_Articles/Kimkins:_Anatomy_of_a_Diet_Scam/

LissaK said...

Becky,
I'm sooo glad I found your blog! I hope you remember me from "Camp" Lissak from Sunny Vegas?
Anyways...I just found out all about the controversy and spent hours reading all the posts.
Thanks for publishing what happened and the links so the folks like us who have not logged onto Kimkins in months could get the information. Email me if you would like to 'catch-up'

Lissa Kirby

Kat said...

This is one of the key players in the fight against Kimkins and I think you should read her blog...don't foget to search the webring too and see the other great info about this SCAM!

http://honeybeesblog.wordpress.com/

Kat said...

The "Time Worstall Tabloid Edition" says:

November 12, 2007
Kimkins
Kimkins, or the Kimkins diet has been shown up to be just another scam on the unsuspecting.

Heidi "Kimmer" Diaz, the founder of the Kimkin's diet - a low carb, low calorie diet - is schedule to appear in a Southern California court on Monday, November 12th, 2007. 11 former users of her Kimkins diet program filed a complaint against her one week ago, claiming fraud, false advertising, and unjust enrichment.
The Kimkin's scandal began when Woman's World, a popular women's magazine featured an article on the Kimkin's diet.

Ms Diaz, who was claiming to have lost 198 pounds in 11 months using her diet plan, refused to meet with the magazine in person, instead corresponding through email. She went so far as to send the magazine before and after pictures that looked nothing alike, which makes sense when people found out that the before pictures were Ms. Diaz, however the after pictures were taken from a Russian 'mail-order' bride web site.

The kimkins diet advised eating just 500 calories a day. That less than concentration camp victims were getting:

Kimkins diet followers reported hair loss, menstrual cessation, irregualr heartbeat, fainting spells, and liver damage from the starvation diet scam.

No damn wonder! Let's hope she's jailed where she can get a decent diet!

Kat said...

Happy 2008 All...Don't become a stastic of the Kimkins Diet Scam in 2008. I have faith in people and I know that there are a lot of people out there that will do the research and find the horrors of the Kimkins diet, the bannings of "lifetime" members for no reason other than to take their money from them, the no feedback from Kimmer herself on the site as promised and the dangers of the starvation diet that Kimmer (Heidi K. Diaz), who never even lost the weight herself, promotes. Ban Kimkins in 2008 and find a free and safe diet site to support your weight loss efforts in 2008. The year you will succeed WITHOUT Kimkins starvation diet!

2BIG4MYSIZE said...

where is know the facts reply to my question about their plan? Oh well guess they went away.

not sure where to post this after my last venture into the tent ;) but I hope 2008 produces a 404 error site not found for everybody looking for Kimkins.com.

Everybody reading this blog who bought a memebership on the site please join the lawsuit.http://kimkinslawsuit.wordpress.com/
it is your choice to either allow Kimmer to keep the 2 million+ dollars, or sue her. It is far easier to join the class action lawsuit and pay nothing other then the cost of the stamps for mailing in the forms needed for you to join, or hire your own lawyer and file your own suit which will cost you money for your lawyer and time for you to testify. please decide to take the eay way out and help take down Kimkins.com
Don't let heidi diaz keep the money she swindled you and others out of.

2BIG

Kat said...

New Year’s Resolutions….
When the New Year comes upon us, those of us with excess weight, start to think of a way to try to get off our excess weight, one more time. If you are computer savvy, you start searching for a fast and easy weight loss plan. Recently, the Kimkins.comdiet has come into the lime light as being a fast and easy diet. Don’t be fooled. Do your research! Kimkins.con is nothing more than a low fat, low carb, low calorie, unhealthy starvation diet that is causing Eating Disorders (EDs) in many. This diet was started by a lady who calls herself "Kimmer" and never even lost the weight herself on her own diet. Kimmer even charges $59.95 for her unhealthy starvation diet and offers a “lifetime” membership that gets you banned from her website with no recourse if you question her about her diet or after pictures. There are a lot of good Low Carb diets on the market that are a healthy way of eating that you can get for free on different websites along with the community support you need. Try them first and see how much better you feel losing your weight in 2008!!

Deni said...

Becky, I'm just bumping things with this comment. :)
I wish I never heard about

href="http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/populardietplans/a/kimkinsdiet.htm">Kimkins.com
and

href="http://kimkinsdiettruth.wordpress.com/">Kimmer
. I lost 60 % of my hair, had dizzy spells, heart

palpitations, messed up menstrual cycles, became intolerant to cold, anorexia induced anxiety problems, and

developed an eating disorder..

href="http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/populardietplans/a/kimkinsdiet.htm">Kimkins.com
also messed up my

metabolism and made the dreaded "regain" harder to fight than ever before. Stay away from

href="http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/populardietplans/a/kimkinsdiet.htm">Kimkins.com
!

2BIG4MYSIZE said...

wow Deni I'm glad you are no longer doing Kimkins.com and letting Kimmer
mess you up with her dangerous diet

Deni said...

Thanks 2big
I think I know better now than to use Kimkins.com and I definately know not to trustKimmer

Kat said...

Kimkins.com is a very dangerious diet that promotes Eating Disorders (EDs), hair loss and other health problems in people who follow it. This diet was started by a lady they call Kimmer who never lost the weight on her own diet let alone any other. Kimmer’s real name is Heidi Kimberly Diaz and she has set up a site for the specific reason to Scam and take money from people, NOT help them lose weight. Friends don’t let friends do Kimkins!!

Know the Facts said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
2BIG4MYSIZE said...

Shame on you know the facts slandering folk on your blog like that.

every one please click on this link and paste http://help.blogger.com/?page=troubleshooter.cs&problem=&contact_type=main_tos&Submit=Submit

paste know the truth's blog in there
I thought you were here to discuss the issues of the plan but it is obvious you are only out to hurt folk who have couragously stepped up and are trying to educate folk about the dangers of Kimkins eating plan.

Please folk go and report the blog linked in know the truth's post to blogger immediately

Laura said...

Did you get a chance to see Kimkins on Good Morning America this morning?

ABC News: Online Diet Comes Under Scrutiny

Here is the complete transcript from the show.

Just Say NO to Kimkins!

Thepenguin said...

Watching how all these people are following this diet is scarey as all hell; they dont realize how dangerous it is. You NEED More then 800 Cals for your body to function, ask your Dr; you're going to drive yourself into the ground with 800 cals; you should be at a min of 1200 Cals, 90-100 Carbs 100-130 Protien (if your exorcising, less if you are not) 30-40g of Fat, total should range between 1100-1300 Cals. This is VERY healthy and its only a temporary diet, 6 weeks at the most and even after the first week you should be bumping the 1600 Cals, which I must add is the minimum a WOMANS body needs to eat to make sure all her parts are working and all her hormones are being created. Face it, you can't just expect to eat less and lose and be healthy, being thin can be NOT healthy if you do it the wrong way. If you do this diet and then you add back everything or you don't learn PROPER portions you'll end up gaining everything back. I'm a curves member and I have seen ladies lose 180lbs a year, and on the 6 week diet they lost 30-40lbs. You can find the Curves diet posted everywhere; its healthy and Dr approved and you won't feel "Snatty".

Laura said...

Kimkins on ConsumerAffairs.com

Woman's World Magazine finally Apologizes!